@thesamstark @destructuremal – pathetic, pathetic. You know perfectly well Marx never gave up on the idea of the CP taking state power

@thesamstark @destructuremal – so pathetic. I was responding to someone who said there’s no proof Marx himself was for seizing state power

@thesamstark @destructuremal – hilarious. Convers starts w/ “u know nothing abt Marxism” – ends w/ “well ,its history’s irrelevant anyway”

@destructuremal @thesamstark – absolutely, again, I think much of Marx is extraordinarily useful. But one must tell history as it happened

@destructuremal – please don’t get me wrong, I love autonomous Marxists. Absolutely no quarrel with them. I was describing history

@thesamstark @destructuremal – 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State – um, shall I continue?

@thesamstark @destructuremal – 6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.

@thesamstark @destructuremal – ever read the Communist Manifesto? Want me to quote some parts?

@masondeese @nerdosyndical @gavinsaywhat – guess you’ve never spent any time arguing w/ actual Marxist activist groups = SWP, ISO, WWP, RCP

@nerdosyndical @destructuremal @masondeese – no I didn’t because it wasn’t relevant to the matter at hand.

@thesamstark @destructuremal – ones who say “you know nothing about Marxism if you think trad Marxism was not anti-state” clearly haven’t

@thesamstark @destructuremal – huh??? The CP under Marx didn’t aim to take over the government????

@thesamstark @destructuremal – what’s more such continual attempts to rewrite history imply unwillingness to confront what real probs were

@thesamstark @destructuremal – to describe the historical role of anarchism and not mention it would be bizarrely dishonest

@thesamstark @destructuremal – because it has been the main historical difference between Marxisys & anarchists since the 1st International

@thesamstark @destructuremal – what is pseudo-history? I said that Marx and his tradition favored taking state power. Are you denying this?

@destructuremal – for what it’s worth, many hardcore anarchists regularly denounce me _as_ a Marxist for embracing some Marxian positions

@destructuremal …historical Marxists is in any way relevant. This strikes me as unwillingness to really think about what went wrong

@destructuremal – what gets me is how many Marxists angrily denounce you for suggesting the actual positions & behavior of 99% of all…

@destructuremal – why not just admit Marx himself and his tradition had major problems, but his ideas can also point in another direction?

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@destructuremal – I don’t abandon anyone; I love, say, Holloway’s reading of Marx; I just think it’s absurd to think it’s the “correct” one

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@destructuremal – sure me too. But you can’t pretend his actual political career, or history of the institutions he founded, never happened

@nerdosyndical @gavinsaywhat @masondeese – same is true of me, I find much useful in Marx. So?

@asadatta @nerdosyndical @gavinsaywhat @masondeese @destructuremal – yeah but it didn’t at the time and you know it

@eponymousthing @annelyttle – point is that in a century of war mobilization a movement incapable of levying armies seemed unrealistic

@nerdosyndical @gavinsaywhat @masondeese – lemme see, WWP, ISO, RCP.. Please name comparable scale autonomist or libertarian Marxist groups

@nerdosyndical @gavinsaywhat @masondeese – ever heard of ANSWER? What anti-State Marxist group played a similar or larger role?

@nerdosyndical @gavinsaywhat @masondeese – those who have really learned from the past don’t react with such angry dishonest denials

@nerdosyndical – to b honest such dishonest inability to recognize history is what makes me suspicious many Marxists really have changed